Prof Itse Sagay, is a renowned scholar of law and Senior Advocate of Nigeria, SAN. In this interview with Eni Olukotun, he spoke on the state of the nation, the outrageous jumbo salaries and allowances of National Assembly, obnoxious pension scheme for ex-governors members among other things.
Sir, what do you have to say about the current state of affairs in Nigeria?
We are at transitory stage now. We have had very terrible experiences in every sector. In the sector conduct, morality and standard, we have really gone to the bottom. We now have a group of people in power without standard whatsoever. They have no limit in which they could not descend whose orientation was simply to loot, grab, accumulate and watch the country to sink.
People who are leaving power now belong to that group. That malaise was even compounded with great incompetence in governance. I am even beginning to see lack of awareness that their conducts were very destructive. When you heard President Goodluck Jonathan saying, he would be persecuted and his followers.
We have really been down. Let examine the sector. Power for instance, the cost of petrol and diesel is just terrible. It is wrecking most of us. For six years, the Jonathan Government could not think of building on refinery but rather it believes in importing the commodity we have in surplus. That is utter irresponsibility and corruption because powerful cabals are milking the nation dry through that exercise.
Nobody is punished for corrupt practices. You can misuse Nigerian resources and you are hero for it. You can imagine Petroleum minister who allegedly spent N10billion to charter jet and went to court to secure an restraining order from investigation. In addition, $20Billion oil money is still missing and pension funds looting. Jonathan era which is about to end is a nightmare era. I don’t think Nigerian would have survived Jonathan for more four years.
Do you think that the Buhari Government will totally rescue the nation
The Buhari Administration will not deliberately wreck the country as this outgoing Government had done. It is going to solve a lot of these problems. It is going to operate in good faith in the interest of this country.
It will maintain a very upright and honest governance in which corruption will be dealt with. Opportunity to loot, deplete our resources will not longer be there!
Specific problems like: power, unemployment and so on will be tackled. There will be upright, genuine and organize attempt to solve them. I am sure the people who will serve in this new Government will serve and not to be served.
What do you make of the fears that the General Muhammadu Buhari Government will be hijacked by certain elements?
I have heard that and I don’t believe it. I am not saying everyone is good. No, what I am saying is that the person (Buhari) providing the leadership everyone one around him knows that he his a man of principle and integrity.
Therefore, they have to have shape up or shape out. I can see a lot of people being sacked for not measuring up to standards. We are trying to rebuild a fallen House which is Nigeria. We are going to start building afresh. It will involve a lot of hard work. We would not see the benefit for sometime because the wreck was too much. For some time, there will not be much difference but it will not get worse.
What is your take on state Governments’ inabilities to pay workers’ salaries?
That is a very interesting development which confirms the views of some of us. That is a very strong philosophy some of us have held that Nigeria is masquerading as a federation meanwhile it is a unitary state.
The states don’t have resources, everything is concentrated at the centre. So, there is need for devolution of powers to the states. The items on the exclusive list should be reduced to basic essentials. Then allowing the states to operate in other critical area.
In other words, we need a leaner Federal Government, leaner in resources and power. If the principle of fiscal federalism is applied, the states would be able to look after themselves.
There has been a sustained outcry over the pension scheme for ex-Governors , what do you have to say to this?
It is criminal. It is immoral. Why would all the resources of the state be gathered and handed over to a tiny minority. We are giving hundreds of millions of Naira to few individuals when over 70 percent are living on less than two-dollar a day. It is a criminal misconduct on the part of the State Houses of Assembly who are passing these laws.
Sir,you are always proud of Lagos State Governor Babatunde Fashola’s performance in office. What is your reaction to his refusal to provide certain information on the running of his Government to Rights Group, SERAP claiming that Freedom of Information Act is not binding on states?
Yes , Freedom of Information Act is not binding on States. It is a Federal Government legislation. It is not in concurrent list. Not only that, organizations like SERAP operates in bad faith. Why would such an organization be enquiry from a state that is best run in this country how funds were utilized and leaving 35 other states which are not run efficiently?
Why concentrating on state that is doing well and leaving other badly run states. They should find out how those states have been spending money that accrued to them. So, it was done in bad faith. If I were in the Governor’s shoes I would have reacted like that.
Don’t you think for the sake of public probity and good governance that states should domesticate the Act?
A: I agree.
Mr Fashola being a senior lawyer and officer in the temple of justice, don t you think he should lead the pack?
He is already practicing what the FOI Act requires in terms of standards and procedure
Lagosians especially journalists have been complaining about inability to access public records in the state?
You see, I have been observing quite a number of groups. Some of them act with mischievous intention. Like I said earlier, when you have Government that is as good like Lagos State Government, how then do you start asking what have you done with funds? The bonds that were raised by this government had been used in various development projects. When people raise this issue, I often challenge them to look at the projects everywhere. You don’t need to be told. It is a waste of time tackling a state like Lagos that is doing pretty well.
Do you mean we should not beam search light on the activities of the state?
Why do you want to probe it when there are scores of bad states in the federation. Go there and probe. I don’t see why anybody should be wasting his time on a state like Lagos that is doing extremely well.
But if there are genuine infractions, they should be looked into. But speaking of the bonds, I can see where the funds went. I see gardens and parks, bridges, state of the art hospitals, massive road constructions and all that. Lagos is a beehive of development.
In the same vein, National Assembly recently refused to avail an organization called Budgit how they spent N150b allotted to them each year in the past 3 years?
What the National Assembly is doing is nothing but outright robbery. They are robbing our treasury and resources. They are like gangsters without conscience. The National Assembly from the information available is spending an average of 29million per month on each member. This is where SERAPS and co should beam their probe.
The National Assembly members are not better than armed robbers. There former salary was like 1 million. They are adding about 28million to it every month! The breakdown is now in public domain. We have done a lot research and analysis on that.
An average of 150b is what they are getting every year then divide it by their number you will get what each members are getting.
Then if you know what the principal officers of the National Assembly are earning, it can lead to revolution in anger. They are conscienceless criminals. They are spending Nigeria’s money mercilessly and unremorsefully.
That is where enquiry should go. How to save Nigerians from callous monsters who are consuming our resources is going to be a major test for the incoming Government of General Muhammadu Buhari.
Remember when ex-Governor of Central Bank of Nigeria, Malam Sanusi Lamido confronted them, they could not say anything. The ex-Governor said they are consuming one quarter of the recurrent allocation.
They have always been defending themselves that the jumbo pay was fixed by the Revenue Allocation Mobilization Fiscal Commission ?
Yes, I read an article written by a prolific columnist, Dele Sobowale who said the RMAFC also have a hand in the whole thing. I will like to know what RMAFC are also earning because if you see something like that, you will know they are partners in crime.
“They must have allocated hefty sums to themselves too. For anybody or agency to say what members of the National Assembly are earning is alright, such agency must have things they are covering up.
“They have all manner of allowances numbering about 50. What each member gets as Newspapers allowance is enough to maintain a top civil servant for a year. The items are frivolous and irresponsible”.
